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  • The Star

    No doubt everyone has seen the photos, videos, etc. of the new stadium. The more I look at it, the more I shake my head. The sight of public educators fawning and gushing over the Jones family is nauseous. The sheer opulence of the facility and how it's been touted - and justified - as a great thing for students makes the bile rise also. The image projected by the city and ISD is one of obnoxious excess.

    A sporting and architectural wonder this stadium might be, the fact remains that FISD spent $30M on a facility which is completely over the top. Club seats, press boxes, huge video screens, 5 star locker rooms, etc. - none of this is a necessity for high school sports. To rational people, facilities of this high a grade are not even a 'Want', let alone a 'Need'. Completely unnecessary and a waste of public funds.

    Please correct me if I am wrong, but $30M bought FISD a facility - with no educational value - which will be used by approximately 1,000 football players which is 0.02% of the student body. If one assumes FISD will have access to the facility (which it owns, BTW) approximately 30 days out of 365, we're looking at a 8% 'utilization rate'. So, $30M for a non-educational, 5 Star building used by 0.02% of students, 8% of the year. And they did so in 'partnership' with a multi-billionaire who could have built the facility with barely a dent in his wallet.

    The city council, EDC and ISD have abdicated their responsibilities in terms of governorship and ensuring value for taxpayer money. It's a disgrace.

  • #2
    Meanwhile, McKinney ISD just confirmed that their football stadium is currently approximately $7 million over budget...currently at $69.9 million...lets just call it a round $70 million...not even going to bore you with how much it costs to maintain a facility of that size...call Allen and see if they will share those numbers...

    Sports aren't going away...no matter how much you people cry and whine...so how about just comparing apples to apples..the FISD investment in the Star and Toyota Stadium instead of building stadiums of their own makes very sound fiscal sense...period....now and moving forward into the future of each of those leases...


    edited to add: The over the top amenities of this facility are because it is a venue being built for one of the most valuable sports franchises on the face of the earth...the amenities were not added at the request of FISD or any one else in Frisco, the amenities are there solely because this place is first and foremost home to the Dallas Cowboys....I mean seriously, whoever does not understand that is just blinded by their own personal anti-sports agendas...
    Last edited by WestSider93; 08-22-2016, 09:59 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by WestSider93 View Post
      Meanwhile, McKinney ISD just confirmed that their football stadium is currently approximately $7 million over budget...currently at $69.9 million...lets just call it a round $70 million...not even going to bore you with how much it costs to maintain a facility of that size...call Allen and see if they will share those numbers...
      Don't care about McKinney or Allen on a micro level. At the macro level, building College-standard facilities for HS kids to use a fraction of the time each year is obnoxious and unnecessary. Anyway.....

      Originally posted by WestSider93 View Post
      Sports aren't going away...no matter how much you people cry and whine...so how about just comparing apples to apples..the FISD investment in the Star and Toyota Stadium instead of building stadiums of their own makes very sound fiscal sense...period....now and moving forward into the future of each of those leases...
      First, it's not 'sports' though. It's one sport - football. Played 12-15 evenings per year by approx. 1,000 FISD students. And if the latest research is accurate, football is a sport in which participation is declining. The Star is not suitable for soccer (the field is too small and I don't see any soccer field markings), baseball, softball, volleyball, basketball and so on. It's not a multi-use sports facility. It's purpose-built for football.

      Second, investing in an opulent, over-the-top facility makes no fiscal sense. Facilities built to this high a grade are not required for a sport that is played by a fraction of the student body for a fraction of the calendar year.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's a shame we have so many haters with this thing. As far as wants and needs go - here we sit in Collin County filled with $500k homes and a median income of $115k. Having a bare basic admin building and football stadium would be quite out of place, as it would be in all the other nice suburbs in the area. Majority "want" this stuff.

        I do believe the stadium is owned by the City of Frisco and not FISD. WestSider is right, this thing was a good investment. It is not only used by football players. There are tons of band students that will be there performing and the students and fans will also be there to enjoy watching the games.

        Is it over the top? Yea very much but that is Jerry's place for the most part. We are lucky to have the opportunity to use such a great place.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by WestSider93 View Post
          Meanwhile, McKinney ISD just confirmed that their football stadium is currently approximately $7 million over budget...currently at $69.9 million...lets just call it a round $70 million...not even going to bore you with how much it costs to maintain a facility of that size...call Allen and see if they will share those numbers...

          Sports aren't going away...no matter how much you people cry and whine...so how about just comparing apples to apples..the FISD investment in the Star and Toyota Stadium instead of building stadiums of their own makes very sound fiscal sense...period....now and moving forward into the future of each of those leases...


          edited to add: The over the top amenities of this facility are because it is a venue being built for one of the most valuable sports franchises on the face of the earth...the amenities were not added at the request of FISD or any one else in Frisco, the amenities are there solely because this place is first and foremost home to the Dallas Cowboys....I mean seriously, whoever does not understand that is just blinded by their own personal anti-sports agendas...

          Actually, the McKinney price does not included the land, and does not include the Interest on the bonds. Finally, it does not include the ongoing maintenance that is required on a facility.

          As for the original poster's rant, there will be a lot more than Football used at the facility, including Soccer, band contests, concerts, graduation, convocation, and a lot more. Additionally, it is self funded by the TIRZ, which does not require homeowners to pay for it.

          It's a brilliant move, but your hatred of the Jones family blinds your perspective.
          Making Dream's come true one family at a time, one house at a time...

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          • #6
            If the Cowboys Tax passes, I can't wait to see what world-class "necessities" our next high school football stadium has.... retractable roof, 3-D holographic video replay systems, maybe it can be a revolving stadium like the restaurant at the top of Reunion Tower. Our children, our most precious resource, deserve nothing less than the very best.
            This space for rent. Inquire within.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Eagle_rc View Post
              Actually, the McKinney price does not included the land, and does not include the Interest on the bonds. Finally, it does not include the ongoing maintenance that is required on a facility.

              As for the original poster's rant, there will be a lot more than Football used at the facility, including Soccer, band contests, concerts, graduation, convocation, and a lot more. Additionally, it is self funded by the TIRZ, which does not require homeowners to pay for it.

              It's a brilliant move, but your hatred of the Jones family blinds your perspective.
              I don't hate anyone or anything. Except, that is, for crappy drivers. I don't hate Jones and his ilk - I do despise, however, public funds being used to pay for a billionaire's plaything. I do despise ISD officials using funds for non-educational purposes on a vanity project of this magnitude.

              BTW, it can't be used for soccer at the HS level - the field is too small. Well, I suppose it could, but it won't be real soccer due to the field dimensions.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Eagle_rc View Post
                Actually, the McKinney price does not included the land, and does not include the Interest on the bonds. Finally, it does not include the ongoing maintenance that is required on a facility.

                As for the original poster's rant, there will be a lot more than Football used at the facility, including Soccer, band contests, concerts, graduation, convocation, and a lot more. Additionally, it is self funded by the TIRZ, which does not require homeowners to pay for it.

                It's a brilliant move, but your hatred of the Jones family blinds your perspective.

                1. Do TIRZ funds come from the public in some form or fashion and, therefore, is public money?

                2. What other uses could TIRZ funds be applied to?

                3. FISD gets to use the facility, for free, for approximately 25-30 days out of 365. That's about 8% of the calendar year. Additional usage costs $4,500 - $5,000 per day based on attendee size. The percentage of FISD's student body/employees which will use this facility is minuscule.

                4. Its purpose is sports entertainment, not education. And sports that are played by a fraction of the student body. If it was a facility open to all for physical education purposes that would be one thing, but it is not. It's purpose built for a very select number of football players for a small period of the year.


                Sorry, I don't believe that the limited function of this facility is worth an investment of $30M by a body whose purpose is education. Throw in its opulence and grandiose largesse, the investment by an educational entity looks even worse.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Throstle View Post
                  1. Do TIRZ funds come from the public in some form or fashion and, therefore, is public money?

                  2. What other uses could TIRZ funds be applied to?

                  3. FISD gets to use the facility, for free, for approximately 25-30 days out of 365. That's about 8% of the calendar year. Additional usage costs $4,500 - $5,000 per day based on attendee size. The percentage of FISD's student body/employees which will use this facility is minuscule.

                  4. Its purpose is sports entertainment, not education. And sports that are played by a fraction of the student body. If it was a facility open to all for physical education purposes that would be one thing, but it is not. It's purpose built for a very select number of football players for a small period of the year.


                  Sorry, I don't believe that the limited function of this facility is worth an investment of $30M by a body whose purpose is education. Throw in its opulence and grandiose largesse, the investment by an educational entity looks even worse.


                  I have to disagree. first off name one city who has not used public funds to finance billionaires play toys. Second i think this made sense instead of FISD building it's own facilitty and all the costs associated with that and the upkeep which is expensive you partner with one of the pre-eminent sports franchises in the world to build a world class facility that your students get to use without the upkeep costs and at the same time luring that top sports franchise to move their world headquarters to your city bringing it with it 5 billion dollars of area development that wouldn't otherwise have come here if not for the cowboys building that facility. Made perfect sense for the city council to do this deal. Now do you want to argue the costs of spending $30 million on a football facility as opposed to education you can argue that all day long. Bottom line this was a good move for the city IMHO.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Geck View Post
                    I have to disagree. first off name one city who has not used public funds to finance billionaires play toys. Second i think this made sense instead of FISD building it's own facilitty and all the costs associated with that and the upkeep which is expensive you partner with one of the pre-eminent sports franchises in the world to build a world class facility that your students get to use without the upkeep costs and at the same time luring that top sports franchise to move their world headquarters to your city bringing it with it 5 billion dollars of area development that wouldn't otherwise have come here if not for the cowboys building that facility. Made perfect sense for the city council to do this deal. Now do you want to argue the costs of spending $30 million on a football facility as opposed to education you can argue that all day long. Bottom line this was a good move for the city IMHO.
                    ....logical explanations such at this will always fall on deaf ears...especially ones so hell bent on saying it's wrong...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Geck View Post
                      I have to disagree. first off name one city who has not used public funds to finance billionaires play toys.
                      Way too many. And the research - not puff-pieces by so-called 'independent' consultants hired by cities - demonstrates that public subsidies for professional sports teams do NOT yield benefits for the citizenry. The documentation is out there and one can purchase countless books on this topic from Amazon. Field of Schemes is an excellent starting point:

                      https://amzn.com/0803260164

                      Just because other cities have drunk the Kool Aid, does not mean that Frisco should have done so.

                      Originally posted by Geck View Post
                      Second i think this made sense instead of FISD building it's own facilitty and all the costs associated with that and the upkeep which is expensive you partner with one of the pre-eminent sports franchises in the world to build a world class facility that your students get to use without the upkeep costs and at the same time
                      We don't need a facility of this high a grade. I am confident we could have retro-fitted existing facilities for far less AND get to use said facilities 365 days of the year which is not the case today.


                      Originally posted by Geck View Post
                      luring that top sports franchise to move their world headquarters to your city bringing it with it 5 billion dollars of area development that wouldn't otherwise have come here if not for the cowboys building that facility.
                      The $5B Mile as it has become to be known existed/exists with or without the Cowboys. Companies are not coming here because Jerry has built a practice facility in Frisco.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pearceg View Post
                        If the Cowboys Tax passes, I can't wait to see what world-class "necessities" our next high school football stadium has.... retractable roof, 3-D holographic video replay systems, maybe it can be a revolving stadium like the restaurant at the top of Reunion Tower. Our children, our most precious resource, deserve nothing less than the very best.
                        Lowe ya man but you are so completely off base here tying the Cowboys to the tax increase it's not even funny. Look, I know you hate everything Cowboys and FISD related. Maybe its best for you to move then if you hate it so much. Just tire of all of the down right inaccurate information flowing from the NO side.
                        The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally, not a 20 percent traitor. - Ronald Reagan

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Throstle View Post
                          We don't need a facility of this high a grade. I am confident we could have retro-fitted existing facilities for far less AND get to use said facilities 365 days of the year which is not the case today.
                          Retrofit which existing facilities? Before Toyota/Pizza Hut Park, there was one HS football stadium...Memorial Stadium..and it has been renovated and upgraded to handle 5A football games as well as band competitions, etc. What else was/is there to "retrofit"?

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                          • #14
                            You know what - you are right - it was a dumb idea, but it's done, we are stuck with it. Just to make you feel a little dumber remember the Taxpayer contribution is somewhere around $115 mil.......

                            - The Washington Wizards are getting 50 million for their practice facility from the City of Washington

                            - The Washington Redskins are getting $4 million dollars from the state of Virginia for their practice facility

                            - The City of Cleveland is giving the Browns $5 million for their practice facility

                            - The City of Santa Clara gave the 49er's 16 million for their stadium and made a loan to the team for the balance, which is being paid back at $24 million a year

                            How about this, the Frisco EDC has a budget of $20 million dollars, the largest budget in the metroplex, but only 29% of that budget is earmarked for incentives - 8% is salary and office costs - uh that leaves 63% for ?

                            Go look at the new high school football stadium on 380, and tell me why our kids cannot play in something like that, it didn't cost 30 million dollars.

                            Why does the Superintendent of our School District need a $1,000 @ month car allowance ?

                            Lots of evidence of excess, and dumb things going on - but these decisions are made by people that were elected by the handful of people that turn out to vote, so before you start complaining about the decisions they have made, you might want to look at your neighbors that put them in the position to make these decisions by not voting ! I have no sympathy

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Throstle View Post

                              We don't need a facility of this high a grade. I am confident we could have retro-fitted existing facilities for far less AND get to use said facilities 365 days of the year which is not the case today.
                              What facilities are you speaking of? There is only ONE fully district owned stadium in Frisco. Was that to be expanded and used by all 12 HS at full build out?

                              So please put up or shut up. Show us your actual plan including the long term $$$ for upkeep on fully ISD built stadiums. You are most likely going to need 3 in total.

                              People that complain about an issue without an actual plan to fix it or at the very least an actual concrete grasp on the issue are just a waste of time.
                              The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally, not a 20 percent traitor. - Ronald Reagan

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