FISD and ADHD

[Beancounter]

Originally Posted by uneedastraw

Uh...I have a 8 year old boy who seems to have been built to be able to sit through a school day. He doesn't necessarily like it, but he knows his boundaries and respects the structure. So, I don't buy this. If we are going to go through the extremes of saying that ADHD is more a symptom of a structured/rigid environment, then one could use the reverse argument and say that ADHD is caused by too little structure (and other things) when they are infants up to 3.

ADHD is not an environmental issue. A neurologist can point out the difference in brain scans and other simple tests. People's brains are just wired differently. The symptoms change as the brain develops.

Medication doesn't cure ADHD. The right medication can help a kid function better in traditional environments. As with most cures, there are prices to be paid. The same edge medication gives kids in focus can cost them spontaneity and creativity. They can come off as robotic. They can succeed at school work but also can lag behind socially as they miss/don't convey the same cues as other kids.

In a perfect world, I would say that going without medication would be my preference. But these kids do need to succeed in our world. Sometimes trade offs have to be accepted. It is the parent's job to manage those trade offs on behalf of your kid. At some point, the kid will let you know their preference. Accept their input.

[Beancounter]

Originally Posted by Geck

your're missing my point my analogy was to say that the meds are used to HELP in a certain situation. Nothing at all about being sick. I apologize if you took it that way as I don't view these kids as sick.

you can make the same claim with any medicine as you way the side effects against the benefit of what the medicine helps the kids do. As far as an alternative way of teaching these children there might be however in a public school setting there isn't enough resources available to set something up like that. That is why private schools exist.

The reason I brought up the meds thing is we have heard the "he needs to run and play more" he needs more discipline crap from so many people who have no idea what this is about. They think it's a parenting issue or a spoiled child issue and frankly i get tired of that. People are quick to critcize those that give their kids meds to help them out. If you think i want to medicate my child that isn't the case. Unfortunately for us there really is no other alternative to providing an opportunity for success. I wasn't saying you were saying there was a problem with the meds but some on here maybe not in this thread have commented that way before.

There are many ways to address ADHD. Increased exercise can help. If nothing else, the change in stimuli can refresh the kid's mind. It can be an outlet for the built up stress. There is no one best solution; it is all about finding what works for your kid. One size definitely doesn't fit all.

[uneedastraw]

Originally Posted by Beancounter

ADHD is not an environmental issue. A neurologist can point out the difference in brain scans and other simple tests. People's brains are just wired differently. The symptoms change as the brain develops.

I know for the kids that have ADHD that I've known, they didn't go to a neurologist for a brain scan to get diagnosed. So, what I am saying, is there are a few kids that I know that were drugged and diagnosed with ADHD that could have very likely been just behavioral problems because they didn't have the proper parenting when they were infants up to 4 or 5 years old. So, for these instances, it cold be very well an environmental issue. I certainly witnessed the lack of parenting and lack of structure these kids received. And I witnessed the parents singing hallelujah when their kids got the zombie drugs.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't realize that the ADHD diagnosis was only provided after a brain scan from a neurologist.

ETA: I am in no way saying that kids with ADHD are all a result of bad parenting. What I am saying is that there is potentially a over-diagnosis of ADHD by doctors and parents who want to push the problem off onto drugs and not take accountability for their previous parental decisions.

[MickieD]

Originally Posted by Geck

Nothing has changed believe me adhd was around back in our day but the doctors Didn't really know why a child behaved the way they did. They were labeled as a trouble maker or a kkid with bad parents. To those that think all you need is to run and play more and that will relieve the excess energy I would tell you know nothing about this disorder. It is a physical disorder of the brain. It is a disorder of self control. Running and playing will not change the hyperactivity and lack of focus in the classroom, sorry. I have seen my child spend an entire day at disney running jumping and playing only to come back to the hotel room and jump from bed to bed. It has nothing to do with physical activity.

This will not go away. The child will not grow out of this instead due to a higher than normal intellect the child learns coping skills that will enable them to deal with this as theh get older.

As for toolies comments the decision to give meds is up to the individual parents and what is best for their child. Typical meds are used to help the child focus and get work done thus enabling them to fit in with the rest of their classmates but again that is the parents chlice *** to what is best for their child. Its just one more tool available, like the meds or nlt giving meds each has its side effect some physical and others emotional.

Geck, I was not trying to imply that all ADHD children can run anything off. I was speaking very broadly. Many kids have a hard time due to pent up energy in their younger years. I think a lot of kids are unjustly assumed/ labelled ADHD because of this. This happened to my son. Had extensive testing done at Cooks. He wasn't ADD/ADHD, we was bored our of this gourd and he had no physical outlets during the day. I sent extra work to school with him every day after I understood the problem. At the end of the year his teacher thanked me for keeping him busy. I was beyond pissed. However, I did what I needed for my child, not for her.

I have a grandson that is on concerta and he is truly ADHD. He's a freshman. The early elementary years of school were very hard for him... and on his teachers. Had a teacher actually dig her nails into his shoulders once - drew blood. I reiterate ONCE. The concerta helps a lot... it's truly a life saver in the classroom.

This is a tough subject because every parent just wants what is best for their children and want their children and their abilities to be recognized and appreciated - whatever their level may be - without comparison or bias. We just want our babies to have a successful future and be treated with dignity.

[Geck]

the other thing to think about is these kids have a maturity level that is usually 2-3 years behind most typical kids so a child who is 13 for example has the maturity level of a 10 yr old. This is very obvious at and earlier age where a 2-3 year age difference means a lot. why some people say that these kids "grow out" of this is because when that child growns up and is now 30 there really isn't that much of a social interaction difference between a 27 year old and a 30 year old as far as maturity is concerned so it seems to the average person that they have just grown out of it. This is a main reason for younger children to miss a lot of social cues because age wise they are the same as their peers but maturity wise they are much younger.

we've been very fortunate as our son's school has some very dedicated and determined teachers who are able to work with him and help him achieve his potential unfortunately not every school is the same way. it should be but it's not.

[Bluekross]

I'm not going to go into the argument about ADD/ADHD since it's not better than a politics thread..

But I just wanted to point out that both I myself, and DS have a discount card for Vyvanse, and it drops the perscription to $20-30.

Also, for those of you who have children on ADHD medication, make sure you research the difference between the chemicals in the types of ADHD medication. Growing up, I tried every single ADD medication know to man. The best results I've had (since 1st grade mind you, and I'm almost 25 now) is with Vyvanse, hands down.

Oh, and I found this, which I thought was funny. http://twitter.com/#!/vyvanselife

Also -- it was recently approved for Vyvsanse to be perscribed to adults for maintenence of ADD/ADHD without any tests or hoops to jump through, for any of you who are interested.

[Bluekross]

Here's the link to Shire's site for the Vyvanse Savings Card.

Feel free to google it and see how much people are saving.

[Athena07]

Originally Posted by Shimmer

Although the teachers never outright told us to get him on drugs the daily behavior reports that were being sent home were enough (out of seat, talking, restless, etc.) He has always maintained the A/B honor roll and has developed very well socially (now in 5th grade.) The major concern is his disruption to the class.

I am so sorry you are going through this. As a former teacher, I understand the teachers' perspective about disruptions, but I also hate to see a kid on drugs that might not need to be. (Not judging pro/anti pharma help as every situation is different.) Speaking as both parent and teacher, you should definitely go with your instincts.

Have his teachers tried putting him in the back of the classroom behind the other students to minimize the distraction? When I taught, I had a lovely, bright young man who just couldn't sit still for the full 45 minutes of class, especially when it was time for me to lecture. I spoke with both him and his mom before trying out the back of the room to make sure that they knew he was not being punished - that it was to allow him to get up, take notes standing up, stretching, etc. For this particular guy, it worked really well (And because most teachers are walking around the room during class, being in the back is no reason to feel isolated.) When he wanted to try the front of the room, he was free to move into a desk reserved for him in the front; he got pretty good at self monitoring and being considerate of the rest of the class when he knew he couldn't sit still or be as quiet as was expected.

In my opinion, I had much more trouble from non-ADHD kids who purposefully distracted the class with rude, crass behavior. A good teacher should be able to see when a kid is not intending to be rude or mean, when he just can't meet the physical demands of sitting still for so long. And good teachers do their best to find a way for that child excel and learn to self monitor to the best of the teacher's ability and within his/her daily time constraints.

I do hope you get help from his teachers and that you are all able to keep plugging away in the way that is best for your son. I really do applaud you for keeping such a close eye on your child's mental/physical health and being his advocate.

And Toolie is right, it can be channeled and used for good. I've seen this as some of my past ADHD students have graduated and gone on to be stellar adults.

[Lilbak]

My DS is ADHD and I fought the 'diagnosis' for a couple of years despite the blatantly obvious (he's 10 out of 10 symptoms).

I have done extensive research on alternative treatments/therapies and we spent thousands of dollars trying to figure out how to help him. We had a daycare teacher that stuck him in a Pack'n'Play for six hours as a 3-year old because she couldn't handle his impulsivity. We had another teacher force him to sit behind a bookcase so he wouldn't disturb the other 4-year olds who were trying to learn their ABC's because he couldn't control himself to sit for an hour straight. He's been bullied as a Kindergartener (held down behind the slide and kicked in the privates by four boys because one of his tic's is grunting/sniffing and they didn't like it). So, now we get to add Post Traumatic Stress to his diagonsis...

He began sleepwalking, having Night Terrors, didn't want to go to school, calling himself an "idiot", hitting himself in the head in an effort to "wake up" (he said), and lashing out in anger at anyone who tried to be his friend (PTSD protective measure so he couldn't get hurt again is what the Psych said). As much as we didn't want to face it, medication was necessary...

We have struggled (what parent doesn't!) with the medication decision. Not a day goes by that we don't second guess our decision. But, he's gained confidence in himself; he's made friends; he sits with his class; he has stopped saying "I can't do anything right"; he FEELS more in control.

Exercise is imperative - yes, I agree with many of you on that - but exercise doesn't supplement the dopamine in his brain that is lacking. He can (and will) run until his legs fall off - but if you sit him down immediately after and ask him to read four sentences - it's impossible without the medicine. He is chemically deficient and simply cannot do it. It's like a diabetic without insulin. You can't deny his biology.

Yes, we do therapy. Yes, we are exploring "re-training" his brain through Neurofeedback in the hopes that we can find the magic band-aid for him so he's NOT medicated as an adult. Yes, I agree that ADHD is probably overdiagnosed (which is why the testing for it is still being refined). Yes, I agree that medication is NOT a cure. And I also agree with Tooley that it may not warrant a 'cure'.

But, in every case I agree with the OP that maybe it's time for schools to re-think the classroom methodology. They need an environment that will allow them to learn the way they can...

[Drivin'tooFast]

All I can say is we played sports outside before, during and after school everyday. From tag to football to baseball to basketball to the occassional scuffle. I can only remember 1 kid that was truely adhd is my years growing up. We also walked to school everyday.