John 3:16........... A Question

[Whats up]

Originally Posted by binz

Don't you have to die to have eternal happiness? Isn't dying the key first step? If so, if you believed in Heaven, dying would be awesome.

I don't know that eternal happiness is the point. Happiness can happen here on earth, and I think the main point is eternal existance, with happiness being sort of a byproduct of being in the presence of God.

Originally Posted by binz

But I can't fool my mind, so dying scares the crap out of me. It is hard for me to conceptualize the end of life.

Dying scares the crap out of me too. Thinking that one day i may close my eyes and cease to exist alltogether is much more terrifying to me than the idea of living forever in some sort of fiery cave.

The hope i cling to is that there is something greater out there beyond what I can comprehend, something that transcends what our meager little minds can grasp, and the hope that the One who does transcend all has given a path to eternal existance. Now that's hope!!!

[binz]

Originally Posted by Whats up

I don't know that eternal happiness is the point. Happiness can happen here on earth, and I think the main point is eternal existance, with happiness being sort of a byproduct of being in the presence of God.




Dying scares the crap out of me too. Thinking that one day i may close my eyes and cease to exist alltogether is much more terrifying to me than the idea of living forever in some sort of fiery cave.

The hope i cling to is that there is something greater out there beyond what I can comprehend, something that transcends what our meager little minds can grasp, and the hope that the One who does transcend all has given a path to eternal existance. Now that's hope!!!

I have no problem finding happiness on earth. I don't need to believe in a supernatural being to be happy. But many can't find happiness on earth and need to believe in something outside of earth to bridge that happiness gap.

I understand your hope for eternal existence. That hope is common to everyone because the idea of dying and it all being over is uncomfortable. That is precisely why religions have been followed since the beginning of time. The fear of death.

The basic premise of religion is so simple. Believe in something and you live in an eternal paradise after you die. Or don't believe in something and suffer eternal torment and pain after you die. The rest of it is just window dressing. Those ideas are very powerful recruitment tools. Simple but effective.

[Whats up]

Originally Posted by binz

I have no problem finding happiness on earth. I don't need to believe in a supernatural being to be happy. But many can't find happiness on earth and need to believe in something outside of earth to bridge that happiness gap.

Again, i don't really have an issue finding hapiness on earth either, and anyone who says that this is the point of Christianity is selling something. I'm not really concerned with any sort of "happiness gap." Between my family, Mexican Food and the Texas Rangers, I've got plenty to keep me 'happy."

Originally Posted by binz

I understand your hope for eternal existence. That hope is common to everyone because the idea of dying and it all being over is uncomfortable. That is precisely why religions have been followed since the beginning of time. The fear of death.

The basic premise of religion is so simple. Believe in something and you live in an eternal paradise after you die. Or don't believe in something and suffer eternal torment and pain after you die. The rest of it is just window dressing. Those ideas are very powerful recruitment tools. Simple but effective.

So this is where we'll agree to disagree. I'd say that most "primitive" religions seemed more concerned with day-to-day existence than eternal questions. You only need a river god if you need that river to provide you fish, etc.

I'd say that early Judaism didn't really concern itself too much with either day-to-day "happiness" or eternal existence. It seems that Judaism (going back to ~1,000 - 2,000 BC) was much more concerned with the existence of an all-powerful being, and about obedience to that being, even when that meant hardship and sacrifice. Christianity seems to have been the one to bring the question of eternal existence to a more central focus mostly due to the teachings of Jesus, although that's not to say that other contemporary Jewish thinkers weren't pondering the same questions.

To flip your arguement, the premise of Atheism is simple: "i'm smart enough to be able to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that 99% of everyone on earth are idiots. That even though there is no scientific evidence disproving the existence of god, that because in my personal existence i've never seen any evidence, there must not be a god, and my personal existence must be extensive enough that if there was a god, i would have seen something by now that would prove it."

I've known a lot of atheists in my life and the one common thread i've seen is an arrogant intelligence. Binz, i'm sure that you are very intelligent, and also well read. I hope that one day you'll come to a point in your life though, when you'll realize that there may be more to this universe than what you can see and understand. That may not lead you to become a Bible-belt evangelical Christian (it probably wont) but it might open your eyes to things that you're missing out on. Your world view is so limited. Take a step back and take one minute to look at a bigger picture.

[binz]

Originally Posted by Whats up

To flip your arguement, the premise of Atheism is simple: "i'm smart enough to be able to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that 99% of everyone on earth are idiots. That even though there is no scientific evidence disproving the existence of god, that because in my personal existence i've never seen any evidence, there must not be a god, and my personal existence must be extensive enough that if there was a god, i would have seen something by now that would prove it.

No, not the premise at all. Atheism for me is not about knowing something beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is about not believing in something simply because there is absolutely no evidence of its existence. I'm not opposed to accepting evidence as it comes in. I will continue to seek out evidence. But until then, I will treat magic men in the sky the same way I treat leprechauns and mermaids.

[binz]

Originally Posted by El Burro Loco

apparently it's also about pejorative terms about religious beliefs as well.

So, if you're "not opposed to accepting evidence as it comes in", why spend all this tie on message boards telling believers, who accept things strictly on faith, that they are wrong?

Are you preaching to me about spending too much time on a message board and resorting to pejoratives for those that disagree with me??

Oh the irony.


Roflmao!!!!

[Whats up]

Originally Posted by binz

It is about not believing in something simply because there is absolutely no evidence of its existence.

Evidence that you find acceptable you mean.

By proclaiming yourself as the ultimate judge of what does or doesn't constitue 'proof' you in essence have made yourself a god, because if you are convinced of the reality or unreality of something based solely on the evidence that has been presented to you and your own ability to process that evidence, and you are the sole decision maker, then you must be infallable.

[friscomatt]

Originally Posted by binz

But until then, I will treat magic men in the sky the same way I treat leprechauns and mermaids.

Don't forget Santa and the Easter Bunny...they are just as real.

[binz]

Originally Posted by Whats up

Evidence that you find acceptable you mean.

By proclaiming yourself as the ultimate judge of what does or doesn't constitue 'proof' you in essence have made yourself a god, because if you are convinced of the reality or unreality of something based solely on the evidence that has been presented to you and your own ability to process that evidence, and you are the sole decision maker, then you must be infallable.

There is no evidence to judge. None.

You have no evidence. You have faith. And that's okay. But I need actual evidence.

[ThisCharmingMan]

Shoot me before I post again.

Lucas withstanding.

[lucas mccain]

Aww, shucks...
Don't worry TCM, I'm still here.