Ask a Jew..Part Two - Page 2 - Frisco-Online Forums

Whats up · 05-04-2012, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nelson

I actually do agree with what FG wrote (other than his characterizations) that as Reform and Conservative Jews we really are taught that there is no such thing as an afterlife. Heaven and Hell are addressed as Christian concepts, not Jewish ones.

So Nelson, as it is the teaching, do you think a majority of Reform and Conservative Jews believe there is no afterlife? How much variance do you think there is among the people from the 'official teachings?' Floridaguy, i'd be interested to know the answer to that same question within Orthodox Judaisn.

Within Christianity, i'd say the answer to that is all over the map, but i'd say the more conservative the denomination, the more likely people are to completely believe the teachings of the church.

Floridaguy · 05-04-2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whats up

So Nelson, as it is the teaching, do you think a majority of Reform and Conservative Jews believe there is no afterlife? How much variance do you think there is among the people from the 'official teachings?' Floridaguy, i'd be interested to know the answer to that same question within Orthodox Judaisn.

Within Christianity, i'd say the answer to that is all over the map, but i'd say the more conservative the denomination, the more likely people are to completely believe the teachings of the church.

Belief in the concept of Olam Haba, and hence the afterlife, is contained in one of the 13 Principles of Faith enumerated by the Rambam (also known by many as Maimonides). Anyone that purports to be a follower of Traditional Judaism would be in agreement with all 13 of these principals. It's kind of the price of admission, if you know what I mean. If you don't buy into the 13 Principles you aren't really a Torah Jew.

I imagine Nelson will say that the majority of Reform and Conservative Jews don't believe in the afterlife. Having grown up in the same branch of Judaism as he currently belongs to that would be my estimate on the issue. I would venture to say that there is only a tiny minority (nearly insignificant) of Reform or Conservative Jews that actively belief in the afterlife.

Whats up · 05-04-2012, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floridaguy

Belief in the concept of Olam Haba, and hence the afterlife, is contained in one of the 13 Principles of Faith enumerated by the Rambam (also known by many as Maimonides). Anyone that purports to be a follower of Traditional Judaism would be in agreement with all 13 of these principals. It's kind of the price of admission, if you know what I mean. If you don't buy into the 13 Principles you aren't really a Torah Jew.

I imagine Nelson will say that the majority of Reform and Conservative Jews don't believe in the afterlife. Having grown up in the same branch of Judaism as he currently belongs to that would be my estimate on the issue. I would venture to say that there is only a tiny minority (nearly insignificant) of Reform or Conservative Jews that actively belief in the afterlife.

This actually brings up another interesting point. Christianity is really defined by Creeds; in order to be considered a Christian (at least in 99.9% of churches/denominations) you have to at least on some level believe in the Apostles and Nicene Creed. This plays out further in that most Christians believe (officially or unofficially) that entry into heaven depends on belief in those creeds.

I've always been told that creeds are specifically a Christian thing and that Judaism is not as concerned with "doctrine," or right belief. It sounds like that applies more to Reform or Conservative Judaism?

Floridaguy · 05-04-2012, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whats up

I've always been told that creeds are specifically a Christian thing and that Judaism is not as concerned with "doctrine," or right belief. It sounds like that applies more to Reform or Conservative Judaism?

There is certainly a group of ideas or concepts (I suppose you could call them "doctrine") that are considered mainstream amongst Traditional/Orthodox Jews. However, the emphasis on Judaism has always been on action over belief. The Rabbis tell us that first and foremost is following the Commandments....even if you don't see any meaning in them. Through action one will come to belief....by performing the Mitzvahs a person will come to connect with G-d and become an ardent believer.

ThisCharmingMan · 05-04-2012, 10:52 PM

Mike or Denny?

Nelson · 05-05-2012, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floridaguy

I guess I was considering there to be a spectrum of "faith" starting all the way to the extreme "secular" to the extreme "fundamental orthodox". So saying that Reform and Conservative are "more secular" is just pointing out their position on that spectrum. There are secular aspects to a lot of Orthodox groups, as well. We have baseball games and BBQ's at my synagogue. We have a SuperBowl watching party. Those are secular activities. We just do less of that than most Reform and Conservative synagogues do. I don't see where the "insult" is, to be honest.

Okay, it is just semantics. I took your use of "secular" as a negative connotation. Obviously you did not intend it that way.

Hope you had a very good shabbos.

Nelson · 05-05-2012, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whats up

So Nelson, as it is the teaching, do you think a majority of Reform and Conservative Jews believe there is no afterlife? How much variance do you think there is among the people from the 'official teachings?' Floridaguy, i'd be interested to know the answer to that same question within Orthodox Judaisn.

Within Christianity, i'd say the answer to that is all over the map, but i'd say the more conservative the denomination, the more likely people are to completely believe the teachings of the church.

I would not be so presumptuous as to try to speak for the majority of Reform and Conservative Jews. I can tell you what I was taught, but I've found that there is huge differences between various Reform congregations, and even greater ones between Conservative congregations. The Conservative temple that I was raised at in Chicagoland was closer in practices and traditions to some of the Reform temples I've attended here, than it is to a local Conservative temple in Plano that I've gone to things at. That Conservative temple is much more similar to temples in Chicagoland that called themselves Traditional (really a variation of Modern Orthodox) than it is to what I was raised at.

That said, I don't know of any Reform or Orthodox synagogues that teach about an after life, but there could be some that do (though FG seems to say they don't, and I'd defer to his very great knowledge...he's far more knowledgeable about Judaism than almost anyone else I know.).

I would imagine the majority of Reform and Conservative Jews don't believe in an afterlife, but frankly I believe more that the majority just doesn't think about the concept at all.